Home | Passes | Health Insurance | Video tapes | Mailing list | Archives

ATOA Transcription Archive
November 5, 2004

Long Term Health Care

Roy Assad
Roy Assad

DOUG SHEER, (FOUNDER & CHAIRPERSON of ARTISTS TALK ON ART): Well good evening. Welcome to Artists Talk on Art. We are going to be a little less formal because there are not that many of us here tonight. But Iíve suggested to everyone that we view it as a kind of radio program with small live audience. On a very important subject which is long-term care. And I want to say by way of introduction that about two years ago, I went seeking around. And I found myself a long-term care package. It gave me a great deal of peace of mind. And like the form that Roy has set up for tonight, I looked at four or five different options. So I think that tonightís approach where we are looking at and comparing to some degree, several different insurance options. You have the opportunity to ask some questions. I think itís the perfect approach for those who can be with us tonight. And those that are going to be seeing this as a PDF, or as a recording later on. So Roy? You are in charge.

ROY ASSAD, RBA INSURANCE STRATEGIES: Let me kind of introduce the topic. And I guess by the way, please refrain from clapping. You may just do the wave, okay? We at RBA have been doing insurance now approximately 20 years. I believe and feel that the best thing we can do for any prospect, or any individual who is interested in any insurance program whether it is long-term care or health insurance, is to provide the education that really is required in order to make an intelligent decision. And they say the best insurance policy is the one enforced at the time you need it. Itís not whether it is this company or that company. The best thing to be is insured. The problem is if you are confused, you actually get to freeze. And if you are frozen, you donít make decisions. If you donít make decisions, things happen. And if you are uninsured, then that is when things get really out of hand. So what we are trying to accomplish here tonight is basically to give you a little bit of information that is sufficient enough to help you to make a wise decision as to what would be appropriate for you to buy if you are in the market of buying long-term care. And knowing that the government is still fighting over it. And they could be fighting over it for a long time to come before this becomes a benefit for the citizens, which I think should eventually be. We are not going to argue politics tonight, or decide which way we should be leaning. But we definitely should be taking care of our people. Today with us tonight, we have Phyllis Goodwin [phonetic], who has been with RBA for approximately six years now.

PHYLLIS GOODWIN, [phonetic] RBS: Six-and-a-half years.

ROY ASSAD: Six-and-a-half years. And she is pretty much Ė she handles most of the HIP program. So she knows many of the ATOA members and artist equity members and so on intimately. And then we also have Mr. Alan Lipson, who has been with us now a little bit les than a year. Although, I have known Alan for maybe 10 or 12 years in the insurance industry. And he is quite capable with his knowledge. So maybe what Iíll do is, Iíll also have you guys introduce yourselves. Just let them know exactly who you are.

BOB BOWERS, JOHN HANCOCK: Okay. Iím Bob Bowers. Iím a regional sales director for John Hancock.


BRIAN SHEPARD [phonetic], GE LONG-TERM CARE: And I am Brian Shepard with GE Long-Term Care, regional vice president.

ROY ASSAD: Alan, do you have a format? You decided to have this. How did you choose to run it?

ALAN LIPSON: Well what we will be doing is [unintelligible] each insurance company representative will speak about their company for a few moments. About 15 minutes. And then after each company has presented their brief presentation, you will be able to ask any question that you have of the panel. You can direct it at any one specifically, or whatever you feel most comfortable with, with the questions. And then once weíve answered all the questions, we will you know. We will adjourn for the evening. So I have asked Brian Shepard to go first. And he is going to do two things. He is going to do an introduction first of all. A general introduction of long-term care. And then he is going to talk specifically about GE and his company. So his presentation will be a few minutes longer than the others. And we are actually waiting for one other company. And if they walk in in the middle, you know. We will have to excuse them being a few minutes late. So Brian, why donít you take it away?

BRIAN SHEPARD: Thank you. What I wanted to talk about in general first is long-term care as a plan. Insurance is simply the means to protect. But long-term care as a plan. How many of you have purchased life insurance sometime here or before now? Have any of you? Life insurance? Okay. WE have some in the room that have life insurance. When we talk about life insurance, long-term care runs a very similar parallel. Life insurance is dying too soon. We protect against that in varying ways. Long-term care planning is about not dying soon enough. Living a long life. And we all need to understand or evaluate living a long life. When you get old, you get sick. And when you get sick you need care. So that is something that we need to think about as a long-term care plan. And if you do, then the product of long-term care insurance is easy to understand. That is the first discussion. The second discussion is long-term care has little to do with you when it happens to you. It has everything to do with your family and your loved ones. Your friends, the nearest and dearest to you. So your family, who you call your family, love you. They are going to take care of you. We want to find a way, and plan for the ability for them to do it better and longer. Because your family and loved ones are your infrastructure for long-term care. Long-term care insurance can allow them to do things in a way that they still have a quality of life for their family and friends, and that you have a quality of life. The last discussion that we need to have before you have Ė look at long-term care insurance is that your assets, otherwise allocated for retirement spending. If you have not evaluated or considered how are you going to fund long-term care needs when it comes your way, you are missing the boat. Because the average cost of care right here in the New York area is what, 70 to $150,000, depending on the facility. Can you pay for that type of service? And still have the quality of life that you so chose. Okay. And also, who are you going to leave your legacy? Do you want to pass it onto loved ones? Do you want to give it to the church? What is important to you? Okay. And if you can answer those questions, then you should go further in looking on a long-term care plan. The product is simply the insurance to protect. Okay. So now I want to start to go into GE long-term care. I need to back up just a minute, because you probably heard some press about GE transitioning to Genworth [phonetic] Financial. That is accurate. It happened in May of this year, 2004. GE turned us into our standalone company. And we are still the fifth largest insurance company in the country, with a $100 billion of assets. Very strong. GE spun us off because they wanted to get rid our their insurance companies. They felt that that wasnít the double-digit growth that they were interested in, as anybody that has GE stock as a shareholder; they want to get a 15-20 percent growth year-over-year. However, in the insurance industry, that is unheard of. A return on investment or equity of four to six percent is great. And Genworth [phonetic] is doing that and more. So that is about the company of GE. WE are an A-ready company. Most of the companies on the panel Ė all of the companies that I know of are A-rated top-notch companies. No bad company here to look at. There are just some differences in the companies that may work towards you. Each company has their own strengths. So a little bit about GE. Any questions on that? No?

ROY ASSAD: I think you probably should just take the questions after everybody has-

BRIAN SHEPARD: [interposing] Okay. All right. Now I just want to go into the policy. Pretty standard on how you get a policy to trigger. The activities of daily living. Most of the companies, in fact all, I believe now. Bob probably can concur that all the companies trigger in the same way where we have activities of daily living. There are six of them. Bathing, dressing, toileting, transferring, continents [phonetic], and eating. If you canít perform at least two out of those six, the policy starts to pay. Now how I like to break it down to someone thinking about their situation is, when you get up in the morning, you generally perform all six of these within the first half an hour of waking up. So weíre talking about the daily activities of your life. And that is what long-term care does. Is protects that. Or helps receive benefit for those when you canít do it on your own. The other part is the cognitive inabilities. That includes memory loss, all the way down to depression anxiety, okay? So now some of the policy strengths that I believe that we have. The first that GE prides itself on is the ability to use informal caregiver services. Now informal caregiver services is simply not having to be certified, or go through an agency for your care. An easy example is, going to your next-door neighbor to have them come over and run the sweeper, pull back the bed sheets, knock down the cobwebs, prepare your meals. Informal caregiver services is what the majority of our claims have been. Eighty-five percent of all of our claims are at home. Only 11 percent of our claims are in assisted living. And four percent are in nursing homes. The majority people arenít going to nursing homes. Thatís a commonly held belief. So consider a policy that covers homecare in a comprehensive manor. We have a privilege care coordinator in our policy that is very strong. It is an unlimited benefit to you. Itís an advocate, not a gatekeeper. That terminology is out there. Most companies donít use it as a gatekeeper. But we have a strong privilege care coordinator. These are actual people in your community that you are going to see face-to-face that are going to help you with providing a benefit package for you. They are going to work with your doctor if you so choose. This care coordinator is optional. You donít have to use them for the benefits to trigger. But you can. The last strength that we have is having a zero day home healthcare benefit. Most companies offer it as a rider [phonetic]. We offer it in our plan standard. The new product coming out for us offers it standard. There is a second product that you can take that off to try to reduce some of the premium benefit. But we feel a comprehensive policy like that is key. Especially with our claims history. Okay. Now some of the things that we do that are very interesting compared to other companies is claims offset [phonetic]. And this is when you go on claim; you have a pool of money that you can use in your policy. Our policy is regardless of claims offset. Your benefits will continue to grow as if you never use any of those benefits. Some companies only use a claims offset benefit feature, which can significantly reduce your benefits the longer that you need the care. Shared policies. We have a very strong policy that allows a couple, husband and wife, or non-traditional situation where you can share the benefit pool in itís entirety. In essence, you can leverage your benefits so that one spouse can use the majority or all of that benefit package. Whereas, if you have two pools of money, if one passes away, one spouse or loved one passes away, that pool would go away if you did not have a shared benefit feature. Our policy is a shared pool. There are not two pools of money. It is one big pool that is shared by two people. And along those lines, we understand that people live in different circumstances across the country. And we have non-traditional agreements where two people of the same sex can have a shared policy as well. As long as you share living expenses. Youíve shared them for at least three years. Those are some of the strong suits. But all the companies on this panel are top caliber. Good companies. So I will concede to Bob.

ROY ASSAD: Okay. Up next is going to be Bob Bowers. He represents John Hancock. Heís actually got a flight to catch. So if you see him run out the door after he presents at some point, thatís whatís happening.

BOB BOWERS: And if it happens, I apologize. Thank you for your time. Like Brain, Iím going to start with a question as well. Think back over the last couple of months. For how many of you is this the most exciting Friday night you have had in a time period? Okay. No hands went up. Three people. Great. Thank you. Well believe it or not, I have been in the industry for 21 years. Seventeen years of which I have done nothing but long-term care. So. It is interesting. Because if you look at what we are doing, what this product does, you would be like oh my God, nursing home, and continents [phonetic], and all that stuff. But I was in a different type of business. And I got into this business because of the types of people that we would work with. It was actually my general agentís idea. And it was funny. Within one year, I could not spell life insurance anymore, let alone you know, think about working with other products. Just found it to be a fascinating industry. You work with wonderful people. And we are doing them a service that is unbelievable. If you look at insurance products in general. The amount of time that people keep a product can be very short, depending on the product. A life insurance product. It may you know. They may decide five years down the road, maybe this isnít the right thing. And they do what we call lapse. They stop paying the premium and it goes away. If you look at the long-term care industry, and some companies were caught by surprise with this. But less than one percent of all the people that have ever bought a long-term care policy have let it go. All right? That is how important this is to folks. Itís not always the easiest decision. Itís not the lowest premium of insurance products that you find out there. Itís not necessarily the most understood. There is a lot of denial of folks who will say well, Iím not sure I need it. I donít ser the need. And folks want to think about it. But Iíll tell you, once they purchase it they realize the need, and they donít let that go. Which is really interesting to see. Brian had mentioned, these companies we are all three similar. Weíll all talk about the differences that we have. And some of the things that we feel make our companies strong. And by the way, maybe of you are not in the industry this doesnít surprise you. But we are competitors. I want the business he is getting from you know, agencies around Ė and he wants the business I am getting. But Iím not going to beat up any competitor of ours in this industry ever. And neither are they. They last thing we want, as an industry is to have long-term care companies that go out of business because they canít make it. Because Brian talked about profits. Very important. You know. And coming from the sales side of our business, I had the opportunity to sit there and go, well I donít care if the company makes a profit or not. As long as I get paid pretty decent, and I can get a good product and a good price for my clients, that is what I really care about. But you start to learn more the longer you are in the industry. And it is important. Because you want the company to do well enough that they stay in the business. If companies drop out Ė and you see it in our industry from time-to-time. If companies make changes or get out, sell their product to another company. Which by the way, in most cases, we will put that other product in a better position. But itís disturbing to folks who are otherwise looking at this going Iím not sure. I have to think about long-term care. If they see that stuff happening, it is just not good for anyone. Brian mentioned the strength of his company and the other companies represented here today. Thatís one of the key things with John Hancock weíve been in the long-term care business for 17 years. Itís still a baby industry. But over a 17-year period, you can learn a lot. We have a woman who developed our latest product, which came out about a year or two ago by the name of Loyda [phonetic] Abraham. A little tiny woman. And a powerhouse. I mean, just a wonderful person. Strong and brilliant. She put together our first long-term care plan 17 years ago. She was the one that developed it. She just developed our latest one. The folks that were with our company at that time are still there working with her. It is a great team. It is a strong team. They have learned a lot. They use their experience at John Hancock to develop plans and programs that can really be applied to the folks who need care. And it is not just the folks who need care. We look at trends. About eight years ago we noticed the trend should change to Ė yes. If someone goes into a nursing home, I want them to get the proper care. But we said you know. What about those three years before they go into the nursing home when they have their family caring for them. We need to develop parts of a plan that benefit those folks. Okay. It makes it look like you are making a stronger home care policy. But the fact of the matter is you did that simply because you want it easier on the spouse and the kids who are providing that care. So we are looking at trends. We are currently looking at other trends with our newer products that weíre developing. People are buying long-term care at younger and younger ages. So in our latest products, we built in features with benefits that will help a younger person who needs care. All right, for years we have always said well, you buy long-term care. You go to age 81, you go into a nursing home, and this is what it covers. Thatís not the case. I mean look at Christopher Reeves. If I have an accident that requires me to need help with two of my six ADLís, I qualify under a long-term care plan. Thatís going to be a very different type of need. So in other words, that person Ė itís going to be more expensive because it is more specialized care. And that person, Iíll use myself as an example with three daughters and a wife at home. Iím not going to stay in a facility. I donít care what it costs me Iím coming home. So weíre building in features to help those folks. What weíll do if someone is under age 65, and they have an accident and they need care, we will double their benefit. All right? It is important because they need the extra cash. And they are going to come home earlier and it is going to be an expensive plan. So they need that cash. Itís immediate need. Itís not when I turn 81 that are some of the trends we are looking at today. For someone who is under 65 and passes away, we will return all their premium. Thatís just simply built into our policy now. You know again, trends weíre looking at. The shared benefit that Brian talked about, very important. Weíve got that built Ė not built in. Itís a rider [phonetic] in our policy. But itís part of the policy. Weíve also developed what we call family care. Itís a benefit Ė itís one plan. Itís one contract that you can have four family members on. A couple of examples. My brother Ė this is the brother of a guy who has been in the insurance industry 21 years. My brother calls me up and says Bob, my wife will need long-term care, but I wonít. Iím like well you wonít huh? And he goes, well why will Joan need it to start with? And itís because Joanís mother has Alzheimerís. And he feels that that runs in the family, which it does. And he feels that Joan could benefit from a long-term care policy. And I said so Jim, why donít you need it? He said Iím going to die. Okay. He thinks he will die before he needs it. Shared care, a family care benefit. Those are so key in situations like that. Because if he does not use it, guess what? Joan gets all the benefit. Youíll see in a lot of cases that the men Ė you know. [unintelligible] situation feel maybe they donít need it because men tend to die quicker than women. Nursing homes have more women in them then men. So they say, well maybe I donít need shared care. Or family care. That benefit is great because it puts the policies together. So if they donít use all their policy, it will move [unintelligible]. So those are key things that we have built into it. Some of our strengths. Letís just see if I got everything. Our product is a very comprehensive product. Very similar to what you heard explained earlier. The folks in this industry will look at each otherís products and say hey, that was a good idea. And incorporate it into their product. And we all do it to each other. So they are coming out pretty similar, which is great for the consumer. Because they can more easily understand what they are getting, and know what they are getting is a real quality, real solid product. So thatís pretty much Ė with John Hancock, what our strengths are. We rely heavily on the strong company name. We were purchased by Manulife [phonetic], if anyone knows Ė [unintelligible] the company Manulife [phonetic]. And what Manulife [phonetic] ended up doing was changing all of their companies names to John Hancock and made us you know. The arm [phonetic] in the United States. So it was a great thing for us to have happen as well. Because we are a stronger company now. And itís a company by the way that was extremely committed to longer-term care. Which is great for you, for the consumer. Because we will be here at the end of the day. And that is quite important.

ROY ASSAD: Thanks a lot Bob. From Mass Mutual, we have Harvey Hyde [phonetic], who is right here. I just want to say that before you leave this evening, we have some brochures for you to take. And just some literature for you to follow up on. And also how to get in touch with us. So Harvey?

HARVEY HYDE [phonetic], MASS MUTUAL: Hi. I donít want to bore you. Iím going to approach just a little bit differently. And for my feeling [phonetic], although I am here from Mass Mutual, I represent every carrier in the universe. So I donít care. My wife happens to be an agent of one of the companies thatís here. So I look at this very, very overall. The first thing you want to think about when you get a carrier is that their financial strengths are such that they are going to be able to pay your claim. Thereís been a change Ė I donít know if you guys said this before, but thereís been a changing face in this industry for the last couple of years. A number of major carriers are no longer in it. Some carriers want out of it and donít care. Other carriers had difficulty paying certain kinds of claims. The first thing that you want to think about is the claims paying ability, and the strength financial of any company you are going to be dealing with. I think all the guys here are string companies if Iím not mistaken. And since I seem to know the names that are here. From our point-of-view, we are probably the least known name. But we own a little company called Oppenhymer [phonetic] Funds. So if you want to have some form of an idea what kind of strength this company is, this is a triple A company. One of the top 100 fortune companies in the United States. Anybody who is going to sit with you can spin one company to be better than another. Youíre going to make a decision when you are coming and look at this from the people who are handling this for you. Iíll tell you some of the strengths of Mass Mutual. More so little differences than maybe some of the others. With our contract, we have something called a joint contract. You have one contract for two people. Because it is one contract for two people, if one person goes on claim, the other person doesnít pay premium anymore. Thatís built into the contract. Thatís kind of unique. Itís a doubled-edge sword quite frankly. Because where there is a wide [unintelligible] ages between the two individuals, then it doesnít work so well. So youíll find I really tell the truth. You have a spousal discount, that could be a significant other, as long as they are cohabitating. Thatís not a problem either. The financial strength in this company is the strongest probably in the industry right now. Itís probably one of the few triple A carriers under S&P [phonetic] that exists. You have the ability Ė I donít know if anybody talked about reimbursement versus indemnity in cash?


HARVEY HYDE [phonetic]: Okay. With Mass Mutualís contract, you can have and make it either a reimbursement contract, or an indemnity contract. Reimbursement contract, which is very typical in the industry, you must supply some form of an invoice. And whoever [phonetic] you put an invoice in for, thatís what the company will pay you. But in an indemnity situation, if you submit an invoice for $20 for Meals on Wheels, and you contracted $200 a day, they are giving you the full $200. So you have the ability to do whatever you want with this particular contract, and create it the way you want. We have a rider [phonetic] that you can add on, which is a little bit different than others. In that you can have what is called a full line forfeiture. Which generally, we never thought about in the industry. Non-forfeiture [phonetic] riders [phonetic] were not something any of us ever pushed. This particular full line forfeiture rider [phonetic] will return all your premiums paid even if you have gone unclaimed from the company. You collect $200,000 from Mass Mutual, and you pass away, you will get all of your premiums returned. Iím not telling you that everybody is going to buy that. There is no such thing as a free lunch [phonetic]. You paid for that ability to have that. But they are the only company I am pretty sure Ė at least the one that I know of that will return full amount of premium even after you have been on [phonetic] claim, not deducting any claims. Okay. Differences. Differences. Differences. They also, if you have an estate-planning situation, I donít know what that is. [unintelligible] third party ownership. If you are doing some very sophisticated tax planning, this can work, whereas it is very difficult to do something otherwise. If you have a corporate structure that is in actuality a sole proprietorship. If you are a sole proprietorship, and your spouse is on your payroll, and you make your spouse the owner of the contract, the first name on it, you will have 100 percent tax deduction for the entire premium. That is also very unique. Again, that is part of the double-edged sword because it is a joint contract for two people. So you are able to do that. But all of the carriers here are good. When the comes that you are going to do this, the people that are handling it for you, if they are doing it right, they will tell you right up front. They are going to look at the underwriting for all these companies. Every companyís underwriting is a little bit different. And they have to work out what is best for you based upon the underwriting, and your health situations. Nobody is the same. There are no two carriers that underwrite the same. Would you guys all agree with that pretty much?


HARVEY HYDE [phonetic]: Okay. So Iím telling you that itís in the hands of the people that are helping you with it. They are all good products here. Each of us has little different nuances that make it better than the other. When the time comes for you to look at it, you have to make a decision which company works the best for you. And is your underwriting going to be best from that company? That is what I truly believe. So I said.

MALE VOICE: There are a couple of things I want to bring up so that weíll simplify also some of the simpler issues, and just not comparing companies. There are daily benefits. So you have to determine exactly what the right amount to purchase is. For example, if you are in the New York City area, maybe it is $350 a day. And if you are upstate New York, it could be 225. There are studies that we can submit to you that if you are looking for information like that, that is available to you. You do not necessarily have to be 100 percent insured. So for example, letís say I am someone who cannot afford to be uninsured, but at the same time cannot afford the premium. It is just that catch 22 situation. What you can do is be partially insured so that some of your savings will cover the additional cost that you may incur. So for example, if the cost of long-term care is $200 per day, and you can only afford 150, at least you can absorb the 50 and not necessarily the full 200. Consider a long waiting period. So a 90-day elimination. I usually never recommend the 30 or the 60-day wait, what we call elimination period. Because especially as you get into the age 65 where Medicare covers the first 100 days. So thatís another consideration of how you can reduce your premiums. Or consider taking a three-year benefit. They say the average stay is around that long, or even less. Most people either get out of hopefully nursing home care, [unintelligible] pass away. So of course if somebody has great genes and they can live forever, youíve got a problem. After three years you could be still in a nursing facility for 10 more years. And you can incur quite a bit of money in expenses. Just remember, log-term care is for someone who can afford Ė letís put it this way. I would say more Ė long-term care is for someone who has the money to protect. If you are someone who is not at all with any wealth, you may want to consider Medicaid, where they will actually then obviously; the level of care you will get is not the same as your own choices. But it is usually to protect assets. Because you want to pass whatever you own to your children or to your family, or to your partner. So consider the waiting period. Consider the amount of daily benefit that youíll get. Consider the length of period of coverage, whether it is three, five, six years, and/or a lifetime. There is inflation writers. So when it comes to making a decision, there is a lot of information to consider. Thatís where either Phyllis or Al will be able to help you individually to make sure that it is tailored to what you are looking for, and what you really should be purchasing, if you will.

ROY ASSAD: Okay. So everyone has had an opportunity to address you. And so I just wanted to see if anyone had any questions. If you wanted to direct any questions at all at the panel, now would be a good time to do that. And we will adjourn after that.

MALE VOICE: Start off with a comment. Oh go ahead.

FEMALE VOICE: Well how do you know for instance, the cost of living changes? You know. For instance, when my parents were working, they bought all kinds of things. But the times change. And the cost of living Ė will that insurance keep up with that? Eventually-

ROY ASSAD: [interposing] What is your-

FEMALE VOICE: [unintelligible] my mother. She hired on her own, just a woman to help her with the daily things. Mentally, thank goodness she was okay. But she was physically quite frail. And she just was afraid to be alone. You know. To help her take baths and things of that nature. Okay. So how can you plan for the cost of living?

MALE VOICE: So what happens when you purchase the policy, you have options as to cost of living adjustment riders [phonetic]. And they are basically three different types of riders [phonetic]. And you choose which one is best for you. They have different costs associated with them. And you work it out with you know, your budget and us as to which is most appropriate for you. But you absolutely can purchase the policy with the cost of living in mind. That was an excellent question by the way.

MALE VOICE: This is more of a comment on the subject. It is the reason that I ended up getting long-term care myself about two years ago. I cared for three elderly cousins. Three ladies who were living together. And I got involved with them. I have known them all my life. But I got involved with them because they needed somebody, and I was their closest relative. And it became almost a daily thing. And they had no long-term care insurance. In fact, I knew nothing about long-term care insurance when I first got involved with them. But I observed that between having a live-in housekeeper, which was the only solution that made any sense, and all the other extra things. All the medical costs. Even setting aside the medical costs and having medical insurance, the amount of money that was expended for daily care to take care of the three of them who were in differing physical conditions, and they lived well into Ė the last one dies. She was 98. This went on for 13 years. And I can say that [unintelligible] a tremendous amount of money. If that group of three sisters had had long-term care insurance, as you are saying, or several of you said, where itís jointly held and you know, one pool of money, it would have been a fantastic thing for them. So looking at that is what had me get very interested in it, and do something about it. And I think every one of these companies Ė I know Mass Mutual is one, every one of these companies I talked to Ė and then four all together. So I canít recommend it more highly then to say that it is very meaningful to me. It gives me tremendous peace of mind to know that my wife and I have such a policy. And listening to you tonight, it makes me think I need to go back and read it again to see whether I am as pleased with, or that it has everything in it that I have heard talk about tonight.

ROY ASSAD: You actually donít have to read it. Just give it to Al. Heíll read it.


MALE VOICE: I would just like to comment on what you said.


MALE VOICE: I lived this recently also. My mother-and-law from Florida. My brother-and-law lived down there. He was a lot of help. That is why we brought her up. I guess you all have seen that before. There is always one sibling that takes care of a mom or a dad. You have to respectfully disagree with what was said just a little bit. This insurance is more about your family than it is about your assets. It affected his life taking care of those three cousins. If there was somebody else involved with those cousins, it took from their lives. More often than not it is a female. It affects their ability to earn a living. It takes them away from their normal family duties to take care of mom or dad or grandparents. And I have to tell you, this insurance is primarily about everybody that is around you. Not just your asset protection. I donít think of it like that. You can always do asset protection and Medicaid planning, and all those kinds of things. That is all very, very doable. Children want to take care of their parents. They will. They feel they have a duty. Or if they love them they want to. This insurance will allow them to do it better and longer without affecting their lives tremendously. You have to think of it like that.

FEMALE VOICE: Yes. And I would also like to add, if any of you have the personal experience of providing or protecting a loved one, family member, you will understand how absolutely important it is to have this kind of insurance. So that they do get the care. Because it is very difficult for a family without the protection.

MALE VOICE: Iím going to add something. I might be the youngest guy in the room except him back there. At 30 years old, my passion bleeds through about this because at 12 years old, my grandfather was diagnosed with Alzheimerís. He suffered with that for 12 years. The first eight years, my two brothers and I and my mother and father took care of him at home. I was 14 years old when I first sponged bathed my grandfather. At age 20 Ė we loved on a farm. WE were land rich, money poor. But we had to make a decision as a family to put him in a Alzheimer unit, which is basically a lock down. Because he had sundowners [phonetic], which is a part of Alzheimerís. It affects different people. But 12 years of our life basically just about half of my life, I had been taking care of a loved one. So passion bleeds through to everyone up here as to why you should plan for long-term care, or at least educate yourself so that you know and can make a conscious decision on how you want to be affected by this if it happens to you. Thatís all I have.

DOUG SHEER: How would you suggest Ė keep in mind that this eveningís recording is going to have more life than tonight. How would you suggest that people go about looking at different plans, and working their way through the different [unintelligible]? Because I know from my experience of it, each plan is unique. And how do you Ė just the way you choose life insurance, or the way you choose medical insurance, you know health care.